Welcome to this NAPFA Genesis webinar, sponsored by LLIS in Tampa, Florida. LLIS is the exclusive sponsor of NAPFA Genesis, bringing you these webinars, National Conference and Symposium Scholarships, social events at NAPFA National Conferences, plus two Genesis webinars per year on the latest in insurance and risk management. I'm being joined today by Benjamin Jacobs Nicholson and Matthew McKay. Unfortunately, our third panelist, Chelsea Ransom Cooper, had a flight delay and is unable to attend, but we'll be sure to get her back on a webinar here soon. Ben and Matt, thank you both so much for joining us today. Yeah, happy to be here. To get us started, I would love for each of you to share your story and how you got to where you are today. So Matt, if you wanna go first. Yeah, sure. How long is the webinar again? Do we have enough time to go through my story? I just wanna be very clear on expectations. Yeah, plenty of time. Teasing. I work for Brio Financial Advisors in College Station, Texas. I am not originally from Texas, but from North Carolina, moved here in 2017 to take a position with the firm. I focus really on the investment side of our business, but do have the CFP designation and gone through all the ins and outs of that particular program. A bit more about me outside of work. Married, have a little one. All of our family actually is on the East Coast, and so it's just us in the middle of Texas, and we've created a nice family and community here, which is pretty neat. In North Carolina, I did not study undergrad. I did not study finance in my undergraduate career. It was actually communication studies, which ironically, we made the joke during undergrad that that's your ticket to unemployment. However, all of the friends that I have that I graduated with and really grew up with are incredibly successful, I think, due to that liberal arts background. It's really translated nicely into working with clients too as well. So I am a different career path than most coming out of school these days that are studying financial planning. Discovered it much later in life, and I can talk more about that towards the end. So excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Aisha. I'll go next. My name is Ben. I own a financial planning firm called Fully Financial here in Athens, Georgia. I opened the firm a few months ago. May 1st was our official opening date. I opened it with my husband, who is not a financial planner, but is more an operations and business development person. His background is in marketing. I also teach part-time at the University of Georgia in the financial planning program. That's why I have these nice... On campus today, I have these nice portraits of past deans with me in the background. And yeah, I got my start. I worked at a pretty mid-size financial planning firm for about nine years. Started there as an intern. Actually got my internship from a NAPFA conference when I was 19, and then worked my way up from intern to... My title was partner and CFO when I left the firm at the end of April. So really excited to be here. I love NAPFA. I'm on the national board. NAPFA has a special place in my heart, so I'm happy to be here. Thank you both so much for sharing that. I guess to kind of start us off, you both kind of talked about school a little bit. So maybe tell us a little bit about the transition from school to the workplace and how you both made that a little less difficult. Ben, do you want to take that one first? Sure, yeah. And so I, just to give you a little bit about my education, I went to UGA. I got a bachelor's in consumer economics and a master's in financial planning. And while I was in school, I was also working part-time at a financial planning firm. So the transition for me was kind of seamless because I was working 20 to 30 hours a week at that firm while I was in school, and then just kind of transitioned to working more full-time after graduation. That being said, there were definitely some challenges, and in school you're used to consistent feedback and getting grades and all that kind of stuff, and there is definitely a transition there. I kind of forgot the original question, but I felt like it was a good transition for me just because I was already experienced by having an internship while I was in school. You've kind of answered it, yeah. Cool. The transition question is a hard one. I alluded to it in my intro that I did not study finance formally in undergrad, and I did not find the financial planning world until several years after graduating. I finished my undergrad in 2012, and I had actually aspirations of being a mental health counselor, and so I enrolled in a graduate program to focus on that. I was 21 in that program and quickly realized I have very little life experience. And in those moments, in those rooms, you're drawing on a lot of that experience to connect and build trust. And I had the theory and the book knowledge, but a lot of a lack of practical knowledge, and so quickly transitioned out of that once we had some bumps in the road and didn't really know what to do. I chance encounter with a financial planning professional who was a CFP designee. His business was on the way to work every single day I passed it, giant sign. And so one day at lunch, I just hopped over and said, hey, what are you doing? How do you do it? And so that was my intro and foray. And so the transition piece for me took several years. Actually, that was in 2014, so a couple of years after I graduated. And then I didn't start into our firm until 2017, so you can do the math there on how long that transition took. It was a journey of exploration. I grew up quite poor. The only thing that was discussed around money was that we didn't have any. And so learning about just the basics I had to kind of come to grips with. My undergraduate career was not really spent in the classroom. I majored in Campus Crusade and minored in the major I was in. And so life experiences around money and the formal education, it was lacking. And so for myself, it was a lot of blog articles and reading and asking questions. And I conducted a, I cannot tell you how many informational interviews over the span of 18 months around the city I lived in, in Greensboro, North Carolina, about a million metropolitan. Anyone with finance in the name, I just called him up, what do you do and how do you do it? Just to get a sense of what this world is. And so again, fortunate to meet a guy who was a CFP, doesn't need doing fee only planning and recommended that I pursue this path, which is pretty neat. So I guess speaking of that, did you have a moment, Matt, where you were like, yep, this is it? Like. Yeah, that this career was it. I didn't have that moment until after I was in it, to be honest. But pursuing it, I definitely had the passion and the passion was, that word is thrown out a lot. And so I think defining it as important in my definition that I'm using is that people notice it and it's obvious. And so my friends, my family, they were beginning to ask me questions because I was so interested, I couldn't not talk about it. Hey, I learned this. Have you thought about this? Hey, again, the peer group I'm in, we have student debt, or at least I did. And so how do we structure this? How do we think about it? How do we transition practically in life out of undergrad for some of us underneath the wings of our parents, et cetera. And so that passion was there and that was confirmation to your question, Aisha, when I was getting that feedback from them, they were actually seeking my advice, even at a young age. Yeah. Ben, I feel like just knowing your story, I feel like it's similar, yeah? Yeah, I mean, I think that- The passion piece, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I knew from early on that I was passionate about financial planning. That's really why I got into it. I was sitting in a study room on campus, like looking up what a Roth IRA was. And I was like, maybe I should go learn more about this because I am telling my friends stuff that I don't really know what I'm talking about. So that's kind of how I found it just because I had a personal passion for financial planning and realized that UGA had a really good program and kind of got lucky there. And that's kind of how I got into it, so. So are there any expectations that you had about the field or I guess the workplace in general that have been different from reality in really a good or bad way or both? I can lead with that one, Ben. No, and while I was not much older than many coming out of school, I was 27 when I started here and had worked a handful of jobs, worked for a major university, worked for a regional bank, worked for a very small outfit. And so I'd seen different workplaces. And so that uncertainty was taken away. Really the uncertainty lied within how exactly do we do planning and give advice? And quite frankly, I think that's different for every single firm out there. There's like frameworks, of course, but I don't think that I had necessarily expectations other than I wanted to learn and grow and be challenged as much as possible. And so looking for a firm that did that really was the focus for me. It wasn't necessarily I had to have this or that, just those three things and just being open to what would come. Yeah, I think I consider myself very lucky. And I think probably most Genesis members are in the situation where I was able to start out in a fee-only financial planning firm. And I do think that there's a pretty large difference between the culture and the expectations that one would have of a fee-only financial planning firm versus that of like a broker dealer or a wire house. And so I think that going into it, I mean, again, I entered fee-only planning pretty early on. I mean, I was like a sophomore in college. So these expectations were kind of managed pretty quickly. But when I first started with financial planning, like I pictured like the wire houses or like the day traders that have like four computer monitors and all that kind of stuff. And so I was pleasantly surprised when my expectation, when the reality was different from the expectations in a positive way that I feel like most NAPFA firms, most fee-only financial planning firms don't have that kind of like toxic male culture. I don't really know what else to say. This might be slightly inappropriate to say it that way, but like that, I don't know. I just feel like it's a much more welcoming community for all kind of areas of, or all kinds of types of financial planners, I guess. So I was pleasantly surprised that my expectations were different or differed. Yeah. Anyway, you get the point. Yeah. So, I mean, you're both young, pretty young or really young. And so Matt, you're a partner in your firm, made it pretty quickly. And Ben, you were a partner in your previous firm and now have opened your own firm. So there are challenges obviously that come with being young in a firm like this, especially when you're a partner, a leader in the firm and managing clients, many that are significantly older than you or in charge of their investments. So can you guys speak a little bit about how that experience has been for you in terms of, I mean, really anything, but in terms mostly of age bias and how you've dealt with that or overcome it, or if it's even still, I guess, there during your day-to-day. You know, I can start off on this one. So, you know, I am young. I was young when I started. I think that the way I overcame, and I certainly did have age bias. There was certainly client meetings that I was in that especially when I was like just getting started where the client would be very upfront about the fact that I'm the same age as their son, or, you know, like Ben's too young to be handling this. And the way I combated that was just, I spent the first several years post-college, you know, just really learning and kind of gathering additional designations. So, you know, in addition to my CFP, I also have my enrolled Asian designation. I have the AIF designation. And so I just, and I really over-prepared for meetings to the point where when I went into a meeting, like I knew like every transaction that had happened in a client's account over the past like 24 months. So that way I could be the first one to answer. And I was extremely knowledgeable. And I think after clients learned like, oh, Ben really knows what he's talking about. Then the trust came and it didn't matter what my age was. So that's kind of how I combated it, I guess. And now, you know, opening my own firm and, you know, not having like other people behind me that are older, like it's really just forming connections in the community that have really been helpful for me. So, you know, I'm really active in like the Chamber of Commerce and like go to a lot of those events. And I think when people talk to us, they, you know, they realize, oh, they, like they, those guys really know what they're talking about. And that, I think it's really just like letting people know that, you know, you do know what you're doing and you don't have to be, you know, I'm gonna, anyway, you don't have to be old and gray-haired to know what you're talking about, so. So it was really, you found like building that foundation of like trust and confidence helped with that. Yeah, I'm like, I'm a pretty confident guy. So like, I don't have an issue going to a client meeting and like not, and like, I'm not afraid to speak up. I'm not afraid to like state my opinion. And I think that that really helps as well, just coming across confident in addition to knowing what you're talking about. Matt, what about you? Yeah, that's a, it's a really great question. The reality is unless you're working with people in your peer group, you're gonna be working with typically people older than you, right? And if we're talking about the Genesis group here and wealth is concentrated in the higher age band of individuals. And so when I think about my journey and what I've done here at the firm, concern about, am I going to be accepted for my, as Ben put it, knowledge and experience or will I be judged based on my appearance first and foremost? And the reality is yes, prejudice exists everywhere and it's gonna be exerted in some way. I can't control how the client perceives me initially other than how I dress, how I speak, how I introduce myself. But if I can't change the fact that I'm young and I really don't want to, and I appreciate you continue to say I'm young, Aisha, because my son told me yesterday, I'm not, I'm very old. And so my clients say that I don't get the son, I get the grandson a lot, which is great. And I don't mind that, honestly, that's a me issue if I have a problem with it, it's not a them issue. And that I didn't always have that perspective. I think that came with time of coaching and self-reflecting and realizing I'm comfortable with who I am and where I'm at. And age is not a disqualifying factor to be able to give advice and sound advice if I'm doing it from a perspective of helping and caring for them. That's their problem if they choose not to listen to it because I look young. When it comes to the firm itself, you alluded to being a partner and doing it fairly quickly. That was more of an issue for me than clients, I will say. Our firm has been around since the late 80s, 86, was founded, Janet founded the firm. And Janet obviously knows a ton about financial planning and investments and it's been around the block. She was president of NAPFA in the early days, very well-known, Natalie's on the board, our managing partner now. Again, I've been involved in the business for a long time, previously worked for a large hedge fund and Goldman Sachs and a lot of pedigree experience there. And I'm coming in at the bottom. I came in as an associate, as an entry-level role in our firm and have grown into a partner role with them owning part of the business and managing the business. And that doubt has definitely crept in from imposter syndrome. Who am I? Like 2017, I knew nothing, right? And now it's 2023 and I'm making decisions. How is that possible? And that's on me, that's not on anyone else. And so I think that's where it's coming more. And again, I always bring it back to, it's a me issue. It's not an anyone else issue, right? I can't control ultimately what they're gonna do or how they're gonna act. I can only control me and how I respond to it. And ultimately what I do to put myself forward, my foot forward, myself out there. I hope that answers your question. Yeah, I mean, like, I feel that imposter syndrome like on such a deep level. So like, how do you, I mean, how do you deal with that? Like, I mean, outside of just being like, yeah, it's a me problem, but like, what do you do about it? So I lean, so just as much as I felt, and I have felt a disconnect, Janet is in her 70s, started the firm almost 40 years ago. Natalie has in this business, 16 years plus the years prior in a very demanding, high status financial industry. And then here comes little old me, right? The reality is though, these two women who have brought me into their partner group, obviously have status, they have stature, they have experience, and they think I'm good enough, that's enough for me, right? That's really all I need. I remind myself of that, and I'm good. Because if I don't think they're that good, there's no way I can believe that they think I'm good too. So it's a little simpler answer. It just takes me a bit of time to get back to that answer sometimes when I'm facing a problem and I'm thinking, how do I deal with this? Has anyone in the world dealt with this? Number one, yes. Nothing I experienced, rarely anything I experience is unique. It's my own experience, but everyone's faced a client yelling at them in a meeting or firing them for no good reason, or an employee who's acting out of turn. Like, it's not unique to me. I can draw an experience of other people. Just remembering those things is really helpful for me to get out of my own way. Yeah, no, that's helpful. So I think you both kind of mentioned designations at some point. So Matt, you have the CFP, Ben, you have a few others as well. So I guess starting with the CFP, when did you guys both decide to take that? Was it shortly after you finished programs, or I guess a long time after, and what led you to that decision? Yeah, I can go. So I, you know, went to UGA, they have a CFP board program. So I was eligible to take the CFP exam immediately after graduation. I graduated in May of 2016. You know, I had decided while I was in school that I wanted to take it. Like, I was, you know, I was very confident that was something I was going to do. I graduated in May, and then I took the exam that November. And so what I did is I actually used, so, you know, there's, it's like, what, five, four or five months, five months. And so that was too long, where I was like, I don't want to study for the CFP for five months. But I also don't want to just like take several months off and lose like my study habits and all of that. So I spent the first, like two months after graduation studying for the first part of the EA exam. So the enrolled Asian exam, or designation is three exams. So I spent or designation is three exams you have to take. The first one is personal taxation. And so I thought, well, if I take the first enrolled Asian exam, that's personal taxation that overlaps with the CFP exam. The EA is something that I want to get at some point anyway, so that I'll be kind of closer to achieving that goal as well. So in June and July, I studied and took the enrolled Asian exam and then started studying for the CFP exam in August of 2016. Does that answer your question? Yeah, it's exhausting just listening to you though. Pat, what about you? I'm stressed thinking about that. Yeah. So I'll, I'll go into the education piece before the test because I started education before I got a role. And like many people are doing an undergrad is great, but you've graduated. Now you're doing extra education to get another job while you're currently working. It can be a bit stressful. And so I started that pretty quickly after meeting the individual I mentioned earlier. And as soon as I completed the coursework in about eight months and sat for the exam three months after that. And so I really wanted to get it done as fast as possible for two reasons. One was a time component. I felt a bit behind the curve relative to peers. And additionally, it wasn't, that wasn't the main motivation I probably should have led with. It was an interest in my own passion and my heart of, I really want to understand and learn this. And so it, I never felt at all. And again, I mentioned I majored in a, like a student organization, majored and minored in my coursework. It never felt like work or chore study. It was really enjoyable. I look back on that time period fondly. I don't ever want to do it again, but definitely fondly because it was interesting. It was fun. And it was helping me get to a place that I had been working to get towards for several years. Well, we have some questions coming in from some attendees. So first one, has there been something that has surprised you within your professional career? Hmm. That's a good question. That is a good question. Um, I can, I have a couple of ways I can attack this. Um, and I'll let you think for a second, Ben, so you can formulate your thoughts. Um, I was very surprised about the industry as a whole, how incredibly welcoming and supportive people are regardless if you work with their firm or not. And so I mentioned before in my process of just learning about finance in general, I was conducting a lot of informational interviews. I kept a spreadsheet. I think I got up to 45. I mean, I did a lot of digging because I was so interested in, and admittedly just lacking foundational knowledge. And it was, it was incredible how generous people were with their time and the information and wisdom that they would share. I don't think that I've experienced that before in my life to that level, um, across industry and space, different states, different levels of, um, uh, experience within firms. I think that's really unique to our industry. And I, I really hope it doesn't die because I think it's what makes it special. Uh, I got in this business because I care about helping people. If I look back at everything that I've wanted to do in life, I can draw on a common theme of wanting to help others. That as I mentioned before, pursuing the mental health counseling, I wanted to help people. I wasn't doing this job, but we'd be helping others. And I think that's a synonymous theme across this industry is that we want to help others. And so we're willing to help each other as we're helping our clients, which I think is really neat. And it was very surprising to me. I, again, being as, um, ignorant as I was had this, I wouldn't even say romanticized, but it was definitely a picture that was portrayed by the media of cutthroat kind of dog eat dog. You don't talk to each other. And that's not, that's not been my experience at all. In fact, conducting interviews with people, I've been kind of lead on our interview process for the last three and a half, four years. And I obviously there's lots of rejections in that process. I don't want to reject someone to just say, Hey, you know, kick rocks. See you later. If they're really interested in this field, I give them feedback and I give them feedback, not only on how to improve for next time, for whoever they talk to next, but also ways to get where they want to go. We're all figuring it out, right? Like, okay, I've made partner in my firm. Um, I'm still figuring it out. It's like, there is no, like, I, you made it. That's, that's the second piece of being surprised. There is no, you made it. Uh, and especially moving in the full kind of length of our firm, it's a constant evolution, not only the business, but also myself. So that's surprise number two. I'm going to say that you probably just crush people when you just said there's never a, you made it, you know? Uh, I think when you die, you can say that. Um, let's see. So mine is more, it's like kind of professional, but like also just kind of like life. Um, you know, I, as I mentioned, like just left my firm, in April to start my own. And, you know, if you had asked me like five years ago, if I was ever going to leave that firm, I would have said absolutely not. Um, you know, especially after I made partner, like I was the CFO. Um, and so I think it, I like, I guess I just surprised myself, like, you know, things change. Um, and it's okay to make changes. I'm probably going to make any firm owner that's listening to this mad at me, but you know, you don't have to like, it's okay if like, if things change and you need to make a change, uh, with the place that you're at or, um, you know, the firm that you work for, if you just decide, Hey, I just want to do my own thing, you know? Um, and so that, I guess definitely surprised me that, cause I, I really would have thought, you know, that partnership at my last firm was like the, like Matt said, like the, it's not the ultimate thing, but like, it felt like it was the ultimate thing, right? Like making part, making partner. And then, you know, I was promoted to CFO and I was like, Oh man, I've really made it. Like I'm 27 years old and I'm the CFO company. Like, this is great. Why would I ever want to do anything different? And I think it just surprised me that, um, you know, things change and that's okay. Um, so. Well, Matt, you kind of, um, mentioned this earlier. So this question is kind of along those lines. So since, since there isn't like a, you made it and now you're not working on anything anymore, what are you working on now in your professional lives? Or is there something that you're both looking, most looking forward to? I can take this one again. Um, lead off. I am constantly looking to improve myself personally. And that sounds a bit cliche, but it's, it's the motivation behind it, which is I want to, I want to help as many people as I possibly can effectively. That doesn't mean I can help everyone cause I can't help everyone effectively, but in my little area of knowledge and experience, I want to be able to do that. And so I'm trying to continue to sharpen that every day. And that's not just with clients. It's also with employees. Um, I knew pretty early on that I would be in a position of leadership somewhere, whether it was this firm or somewhere else, it's just in my nature and who I am. I can't help, but gravitate towards those. I like the responsibility and I like the weight and I like the decision-making, um, and the stress as crazy as that sounds. And you don't do that in a vacuum. It's not a self-centered thing. It is a selfless thing to do it. Well, it's a servant leadership. And so to, to do that properly, I think there is a lot of introspection and reflection and dissecting what you did well and what you didn't do well. And if you don't enjoy critiquing, you're not going to be able to do it at the highest level because it's, it's constant self-critiqued and other critiques. Um, whether you ask for it or not, you're going to get it. Uh, so you get to have some thick skin and some good grounding and who you are and what you're comfortable with. With that said, um, from the business perspective, that's been a heavy focus for me. I've been pursuing, uh, personal, um, growth and like the CFA I'm on level three now, and it seems like a, just a never ending task, but it'll be done soon. Um, that's the only thing on the like education side that I'm focused on past that it's really business. How do I lead? Well, how do I manage people? Well, how do you do it from a perspective of, um, Not only engaging, but inspiring people. This is a mission, right? Especially now that it's fee only for Pete's sake. I, I was drawn to work in a fee only firm because it is mission oriented. You're doing it because you think it's the best way to serve clients, right? You believe that compensation model aligns your interest in the client's interest in the best way. And there's obviously arguments within fee only, but generally speaking, that's the case, right? And so people are drawn to that mission. How do I continue inspiring them beyond that mission for what we want to accomplish as a firm? How do I inspire them for their own growth to see what I see? I'm by nature, an optimist, and I forward looking. And I think of what are the possibilities kind of creative minded. And I see someone and I think, Oh man, they could become this. How do I, as a leader, help them to see that potential? I see it very clearly. How do I engage them and encourage them in that way and keep them? I don't want to use the word accountable, but at the same time, how do I keep them moving down that path? That's the area of focus I'm really engaged with at the moment. Yeah, I think in terms of my professional life at the moment, I've just opened a firm and that's really what's consuming my time. It's a lot to open a firm and it's definitely a decision that takes a lot of thought and there's a lot of work that goes into building something. And especially if you want to build it the right way. So that's really mainly my focus at the moment is just making sure that as I create this firm and I want it to be, I want to have a very firm foundation and solid ground. And that way, as it continues to grow, it's set up in a way that can grow efficiently and in the right way. So that's kind of what I'm focusing on right now. Great. Let's see what else. What are the key things you did that helped you stand out to your managers and move up on the leadership track in a relatively short time? Yeah, I can start. So I think the biggest one, I think for me, and this is what we also looked for when looking to promote people is taking initiative. And so, you know, I was always the first one to jump in and offer my help, but also the first one to try to solve a problem without, you know, I would try to solve it on my own without going to my boss. And then I would have the solution. Essentially, I would go to them with the solution. So I think that's a really big one is just taking initiative and not being afraid to work a little bit late and just work hard. I mean, everyone wants good work-life balance, right? But there's definitely some times when you might need to work a little bit late. And I think that really just, at least the people I was working for really showed a lot of, you know, like, oh, Ben's going to work really hard for me. And that's how I continue to get promoted. I echo a lot of those things, Ben. I would add and talk about myself specifically. I can't tell you what other firms are looking for, I can't tell you what other firms are looking for, other managers. I think people have their own perspective of what is success. And so I'll just speak to my own. I can tell you this, without a level of self-awareness and a desire to elicit feedback and receive feedback and then act on that feedback, not a chance I would be in the position I'm in today. And so I think it starts there with a willingness for myself to want that. I wanted this to work out desperately. And so part of it was a, I was in a bit of a pickle in that I uprooted my life and my spouse to move across the country, 1700 miles to work for a firm, which is relatively well-known, but still small in the grand scheme of things. We're not $50 billion. And we have no family, we're no friends. And so we're here for a professional move. And when you take all those things away, you strip them away, you see what really matters and what you're willing to do and not willing to do to see if it's going to work. And I'll tell you this, and it'd be hilarious to bring on Janet and Natalie and my other partners, they would echo this. My first six months, I didn't know if I was going to make it. My six-month review was terrible. It was awful. I left it feeling like, holy cow, I have so much to work on. I don't know anything. And I got feedback that was tough to hear, put bluntly. And I had a choice in that moment that I could lean in. And what I mean by that is, I didn't necessarily agree or believe it. I got feedback that I'm like, I don't necessarily see it here, but it's back here. I don't see what's going on back here, but they obviously do. And so I have a choice in this moment. Am I going to lean in and trust them and see what happens? Or am I going to say, I don't see it. This was a fun experiment. I'm packing my bags and going back to the East Coast. And so that was the choice of self-reflection and leaning in and being open to the feedback, but also not only open, but actually acting on that feedback. And it was a complete 180 turnaround. It really catapulted me in a lot of ways, obviously doing the things that Ben mentioned, volunteering. We'd have plans and I would raise my hand for every new client that came in. I have two plans to go, I don't care. I want the client. I want it. That hunger is evident. People see that, that people see that desire. Ben mentioned working late. No one's looking at the clock necessarily from my perspective in our firm. But we also recognize if you're interested in being at the highest level of the firm, i.e. in an ownership position, this is not a eight to five, it's a 24 seven. And you sign up for that and you recognize too as well. I know Aisha and Ben, you both know this, having spouses, your spouse also signs up for it too. It's not just you. And so you have to have those conversations to say, are you in this or not? Whenever I bought in, it was not only just a substantial down payment that I'm buying in to own, but it's also saying, hey, Emily, my spouse, this is an investment for us. It's not Matt's job. It's not Matt's business. It's ours. You have to have that perspective going into it. And that buy-in from a family perspective also matters as you're thinking of moving up because it is time. It's not all the time, but there is time. I was on the phone last night for an hour from 8 to 9 talking about things, right? That's outside of work hours. My kids still awake, but it was an important topic that we needed to discuss right then and right there. It couldn't wait. Those things happen. If you're not open to that, you have to check yourself to see how far your ambition really goes. So that's just my perspective. Now, I'm really glad that you said the self-reflection piece because I feel like as a partner in my firm, that's what helped me grow the fastest was really like partners look for other people to promote that are not only like competent and like efficient financial planners, but are also good leaders and role models for other people in the firm. And to be able to do that, you have to really engage in some self-reflection and be able to grow from the feedback that you get. So I'm really glad that you said that. Do you feel that demonstrating knowledge of your client or demonstrating financial planning technical knowledge is more important in building trust as an inexperienced advisor? I assume the answer is both, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts. Let me know if you need me to repeat that one. Yeah, I can take that one first, Ben. It is definitely a both, Aisha. You're right. That is, it's complicated because if you're new, as you described and learning, I would speak for our firm. I want you to get to the technical side so well, because that's your foundation. And if you don't have that, there is nothing. You can be a great relationship person and do BD and have a place in the firm. But if you don't have the technical skills, you're really going to struggle because you can't communicate the story. You can't communicate the value add. You can't communicate where the hiccups are going to be and their own plans that they're coming up with. That is, in my opinion, the paramount that really comes first. Again, if I'm looking at someone in our firm, again, other firms are going to look up a little bit different, but as I look at our associates, the folks that have come on entry level, we really focus in on that for the first three to six months. Just dive in, own it. It's foundation. It's beneficial. It'll carry you on the long run. Yeah, I'd echo that. I mean, I think both are very important. Eventually, you have to get to the point where you have both. But I do think that if you had to choose one, I would choose the technical knowledge just because, yeah, if you don't have the technical knowledge, even if you have a good relationship with the client, the client's going to know you don't know what you're talking about. And so I feel like it's very important to have that technical background. And then you can build the relationship with the client. I mean, hopefully, that's kind of coming along the way. Simultaneously. But yeah, I think they're both important. If I can piggyback again, because what you said there then actually triggered something in me, it also depends on the firm. Our firm is structured where we have typically two people in meetings and a support associate or service advisor lead. And I remember someone said this to me when I first started, and I think they were joking, but it was such good advice. I don't think they realized how good it was. I said, Matt, your only job is to make me look good. And you do that from the technical side. It's not trying to take over the relationship. You make them look good because you've done the analysis. You've put it literally on a silver platter for them to deliver straight to the client. I mean, that, in my mind, shows not only recognition of where you are in your own walk and journey, it doesn't mean you're going to be there forever. It's not eating humble pie. It's just owning where you are and doing it to the best of your abilities as possible and recognizing the experience and ability of your team members, too, as well. So I tell everyone that advice, like, just make the people around you look really good. That's what you need to focus on. And I think that is a technical piece, as Ben was saying. Well, I guess on that note, Ben, what is the most impactful piece of advice you have been given or would give to younger planners? Oh, man. I think that I would, I mean, I kind of said this a little bit already, but I mean, just be like overprepared going into a meeting. Like, I really think that that's how I was able to to show clients that like I was and my boss at the time, right? Like that Ben knows what he's talking about. And so I think it's just like really making sure that you're prepared going into every meeting. Like the last thing you want to do is your boss is in a meeting and like points to you and says like, oh, hey, like essentially you're the one that does analysis. Like, what do you think or like what like what's the answer to this question? And then you don't know it. So, I mean, that's I would give that advice to anyone that you have to be prepared going into any meeting, even I mean, even if you're like a 50 year old advisor, you know, going into a meeting, like it might be a little bit easier for you to answer off the cuff or, you know, come up with an answer to a situation. But like it's so important that anyone be prepared going into a meeting, because if you're not and the client asks the right question that you're not prepared for, then all it's going to do is just make the client lose trust in you. So and possibly your colleagues. I feel like you both said similar things, so that's awesome. So I guess, Ben, I know that you have to go teach a class soon, so I guess I'm sticking to the title of this webinar. Looking back on your journey to this point, is there anything that you would have done differently or sooner or what do you wish you would have known? I don't know if there's anything, you know, I try to live with not really any regrets, so I don't know if there's anything that I would have done like super differently. I feel like everyone follows a path and, you know, and I think that path is like is the right path that you were supposed to be on, essentially. I mean, I really again, I feel like I've said this a little bit, but, you know, I I think the only thing that I wish I would have, I guess, mentally been prepared for is like things are going to change. You know, it's not the path that you start off on. It might feel like that is the path you have to stick on. And it's not, you know, you can make changes to your journey as you go and things are going to change, right? It's not realistic to think that you start a job at 22 years old right out of college and and you end there 40 years later. And that would be great. And some people certainly will do that. But I think it's it and it took me a long time to realize that was OK, that I was making a change and that, you know, it's it's not a bad thing that I'm deviating from this like path I had in my mind. So I guess I'll just I'll kind of end with that and just say that it's OK that things change. And, you know, there's I've learned through this process of leaving and joining the firm that are not joining the firm, starting my own firm, that, you know, I have a great support system through my colleagues and friends and all that. And so, you know, things will be OK. You know, it might feel like a lot of a big change if you're changing, like changing jobs. But, you know, it's it'll all work out in the end. So. That's that's what I have to say. But I do have to go. So I can't get an answer, but it will mold the minds of college students. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, I really appreciate the opportunity. So thanks, everyone. Good to see you, Ben. Hey, Matt, you're up. Golly, this is like an extremely difficult answer on a couple of levels. I wish I had known everything right by nature. I'm forward looking and I'm trying to reduce as much uncertainty as possible, especially on the investment side, which is where I focus my my whole entire existence is around trying to reduce the uncertainty and shift probabilities in our favor. And so I laugh and I joke with my wife a lot. I don't ever look at the weather because I want to be surprised about something because I'm constantly looking forward and projecting and predicting. And so when I think back, yeah, I would like to know everything I would have experienced. I would have loved to have foreseen how COVID would have changed our business and businesses as a whole. Right. And been able to adjust and adapt. We adapted actually really well from being able to go digital online, virtually pretty quickly. But even still, we could have, I mean, hindsight 2020, right? Should have bought Bitcoin in 2009. Like you could do a lot of things a lot better. Right. With that said, when I think practically about growing in my profession and growing in the business, I knew this intuitively, but I think feeling it, there's always a bit of a disconnect here. And you might be catching a common theme with me about the feelings and the thought process and the connection there. I wish I would have known how hard it could be at times, especially leading. I signed up for that and I knew it, especially if I go to the place of becoming a partner, having conversations with both Natalie and Jane. And I've sat in a meeting with them every week for a year before I bought in talking through leadership staff, the business, forward-looking strategy, et cetera. And they were very transparent, very honest and vulnerable highs and lows. And it can be in some ways, extreme highs and lows. It is awesome closing clients. It's awesome getting new staff. It is gut-wrenching to have the opposite happen. It is very difficult to sit in meetings with clients who haven't been doing their job and they're blaming you for it. And you have to sit there and take it in some ways and then draw the line when this is unacceptable. And I don't need this in my life or my firms. You can pack your bags and go. All of those can be very difficult. And so, again, I knew that, but feeling it, I wish I'd known how painful it could be at times. It is not for the faint of heart, which is why I think there aren't a lot of people in leadership and why many people shy away from growing. They want to grow in their career in terms of salary compensation and maybe responsibilities. But with those responsibilities typically come more weight and sometimes leadership roles. And so, it's not for the faint of heart. It definitely can pull on your heartstrings. If you're doing this, I think at the highest levels, you're going to invest not only your financial capital and time, but also your emotions into it. And you care deeply about its success. I just wish I'd known the feeling side more. If I could have felt it and known, okay, this is as painful as it could be or would be in your first couple of years. So, I don't think anything else I would have done differently or wish I would have known differently. Again, just because of being surprised by things is kind of fun. So, did you know that the freeze was coming in Texas a couple of years ago? Or are you taken by surprise since you don't check the weather? Again, total surprise. And again, being on the East Coast, our pipes in Texas go into the ceiling, right? They're not built into the foundations. Where I'm from, they're in the foundation. So, you don't wrap your pipes. You don't do any of that stuff. And my neighbor comes over and knocks on the door kindly. And we have such good neighbors. Our kids are all similar ages. And he said, hey, Matt, I know you're not from here, but you got to wrap your pipe. So, they're going to burst. I'm just like totally flabbergasted. Homeowner over here just trying to make buy. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Maybe you wish you knew that before you moved to Texas. Yeah, I wish I'd have known how lovely the people were and how wonderful the climate is. People talk about it being hot. The summer is actually abnormally hot. I actually think North Carolina, where I'm from, is hotter. And I tell people that. I'm like, there's no wind in North Carolina. The humidity is higher. And the temperature is only five degrees less. Here, there's typically a constant wind. The humidity is a bit lower. Yeah, the sun's more intense. But that's why you have shade, right? For sure. Well, do you have any books, podcasts, or other resources that you would recommend to anyone that's looking to grow? It's a great question. Admittedly, a lot of the resources I focus on are investment-oriented. So I don't know. I don't read a lot of career development or professional stuff, partly out of self-preservation. This being in the role, when you're in it, it is survival all the time. Even if your business is thriving and our business is doing really well, but it's still survival because anything can happen, right? Anything possible could happen. So that's a little bit tough for me. I think that I don't have anything specific. It's just having an openness to whatever is out there and indulging yourself with you if you have an interest. There's nothing wrong with checking out something to see if it could fit you or it could work, right? I think being closed-minded or closed off or worried what people may or might think could be an issue. I'll give you an example of this practically. I've mentioned multiple reviews now. So my first review wasn't that great. I had another review down the line where fine review, but I put forth some... It was for the first time, and I guess going back a couple of questions where you asked, I don't remember exactly how you phrased it, but how did you stand out? One way I stand out, I told them I want to be a partner, which sounds a bit crazy to stand out in that way. But you would be shocked at how many people don't ever raise their hand to say what they want. They're hoping that you'll read their mind or that you'll just give it to them. And that's not how the world works. And so I was vulnerable. I said, I'm interested in this. I know that I will gravitate towards this here or somewhere else. And so I hope it's here. And I would love to work towards that. And I would love to hear from your perspective how that would work. In that same meeting, I put forth my desire. And then I also brought in a list of items of what I'm going to do to work towards it. I'm solution-oriented. I'm not going to bring a, quote, problem of IE. I want this without some sort of solutions. And quite a few of my solutions were shot down. And I said, you know what? I still think they're worthwhile. I'm going to pursue them. And I got a lot of respect out of that from my two partners now. They respected the fact that I had enough one gumption to pursue something, even if I wasn't necessarily recommended to do so. And in fact, was maybe even discouraged from doing it because it showed a level of character and a level of independence. And thought that it's my own, that you can run into a lot of groupthink, not only in this industry, but other places, which is, hey, they told me not to do this. I'm not going to do it. Again, if you're trying to be a lead advisor, managing relationships where it's just you, you're trying to be an owner, whatever it is, you have to have a level of independent thought that's your own. Otherwise, no one's going to follow you. It's going to be meek, sparse, if you will. But I guess, how do you balance that between showing your independent and can think on your own and have ideas versus like, my boss did tell me to do this. And I want to follow that. Great. And clarification needs to be had there because otherwise I'm giving terrible general advice. I did not ever say, I'm going to be doing this on company time or I'm going to be spending my time in this way. I said, I'm doing this outside of work, supplementing what I want to be doing. It was never going to detract from the work that I was doing here. It was not in opposition of the clients or service we were trying to provide. It was meant to be an enhancement of my own skills and knowledge and hopefully complementing the business. And it has been that actually. By the time, maybe I didn't vision cast well enough as I was presenting my list of things I would do. But I definitely approached it from a perspective of humility and acknowledgement that I'm not telling you I'm doing this and I'm going to be using your time and resources to accomplish this. I want to do this on my own. And I want you to know this is why I'm doing it. Right? Because they could say, hey, have you thought about this to help enhance what I'm already thinking of? Right? Or they could say, hey, be careful about X, Y, and Z. It's a level of communication. And ironically, I feel silly just now bringing this up. I was a communication studies major for Pete's sake. We really didn't talk about that, Ben and I. That level of communication that's necessary to not only establish yourself with clients, but also establish yourself internally. If you're not able to communicate your thoughts in a concise manner, if you're not able to communicate your ideas in a way that's effective to the person receiving it, it's going to be very difficult for you to make inroads anywhere. And so communication is extremely important, probably the most important thing. And it's incredibly important from the perspective of the relationship being open and honest about what you're doing and why you're doing it. And so it's not to be undercurrent, kind of detracting from what the movement of the business is doing. You don't want to kind of undermine anyone. Just being open and honest about where you're at and what you're looking to do. They may meet you there. They may not be able to meet you there, but at least you're being authentic to where you're at. I think one of the, I read a book called Crucial Conversations, which I think is super helpful in terms of figuring out how to best communicate during those hard conversations. So I like that you added that. Yeah. Well, I think that wraps up all the questions that we have. So on behalf of NAPFA Genesis, I really want to thank you for sharing your experience today. And thanks for joining us. Everyone else, thank you so much for attending. Please don't forget to complete the survey and to also apply for the DEI Certificate Scholarship. Have a great afternoon.

financial planning industry

career journeys

transitioning

trust building

professional development

leadership roles

age bias challenges

technical knowledge

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