Hello, everyone, and welcome to our first breakout session of the NAPFA Spring 2023 National Conference. I'm pleased to introduce Christopher Dale. Christopher's firm specializes in helping those in grief navigate financial matters between 2008 and 2012. Dale lost his father, mother, paternal grandmother, and oldest son. Based on those tragic events, he changed the trajectory of his career to solely help individuals in grief. Dale honed his education by becoming a certified financial transitionist in order to help clients navigate through major life events and financial transitions that accompany them while navigating death, grief, a career and the rise of his firm. Please join me in welcoming Christopher to the stage. Good morning. I'm a former educator. So if you can still hear me, please raise your hand, because I can't hear myself. All right, perfect. So she had interchanged my name. So my name is Christopher Dale. And I just want to address them because people always ask me, do I go by Chris, Christopher or Dale? If you meet me out and around, you can call me Chris, Christopher or Dale. I respond to all of those. Okay. Thank you for allowing me to come and speak on the challenges of race and our profession. I'm going to ask the audience, it's a rhetorical question, but I'm going to ask you to think about it, and then answer the question at the end. So the first time I enter any kind of a room, what do you think the first thing that goes through my mind is, whether it's a corporate event, whether it's a social event, or it's just a room full of friends. So think about that. And I'm going to come back to the question at the end. So the challenges of race in our profession, it's very, very near and dear to me. And it's very, very important. And I'm going to go through some introductions, I'm not going to leave my friends here out. It's very important to me, because there are a lot of things in my life that I've gone through. And then folks see me on stage as doing this now. But there's a lot of struggle and strife to kind of get to this point. What I also understand is I have two young boys that look up to me. And it's important for them to see me carry myself effectively and all the struggles that I go through in my life, and understanding that I've had people before me that have helped me to get to where I am. And I'm obligated to pay it forward. And so that is my attempt today. And so this isn't going to be a lecture about me, this is going to be an interactive session. And I'm going to ask some questions, I'm going to answer some things myself. And I think we have a small enough group to where I can probably get the audience more involved than if it was a large, very large audience. One of the things that I also understand is that this is a very sensitive subject. It's not sensitive for me any longer, because I've been through so much, and I have very thick skin. And so what I would ask of the audience, if you have a question or a comment, please feel free to speak your mind, but also be very sensitive to the people around you. And I appreciate everyone coming and wanting to learn a little bit more. At the conclusion of the session, I'm going to give you some takeaways. And as a former educator, I would be remiss if I didn't have some things for you to take away with you as objectives and things to learn from. So I also understand that this is a painful subject. And for some folks that may not necessarily feel they have a voice. So I have a voice, I have a microphone, and I use it. And this is a form that I use it, I understand that there are also other people that want to learn, but are uncomfortable about asking the right questions, because they may not want to offend people. Well, I also have a voice for those folks as well. And I was told something at another session where I spoke about this very same subject, it's not my responsibility to do this. And I said, you know what, you're absolutely right, it's not my responsibility. My responsibility is if somebody extends their hand, and they want to learn more, my responsibility becomes now I extend the hand back, and I help them learn and understand the things that I've gone through in my life. So without further ado, I'm going to make some introductions. So I'm gonna introduce my two sons and then my wife. So my oldest son is Elias, he is my oldest living son. That was mentioned before we lost his twin. Stand up, Eli. Gideon is my youngest son. Stand up Gideon. And then the backbone of our operation is Ann Marie, that's my wife. And so I involve my boys in a lot of stuff that I do. And I asked the conference, could I bring them and kind of have them immersed in what I do. I think it's very, very important. So thank you all for being here. And then I want to introduce the panelists as well. Without you agreeing, this wouldn't happen. So I'm very appreciative. So Danson, yes. We had a conversation it was a week ago, two weeks ago. Yeah, about that time. Yes, about that time. And I learned some things from her that are unique to my experience, in regards to being a female in a male, traditionally male dominated industry. And so she has very valuable things to bring to the table, as well. And being an Asian American woman, as well. And then John, appreciate you being here, buddy. Thanks for having me. He and I are pretty probably pretty close in age. We have kids that are close in age. And he also has very valuable information to bring to the table. And I'm very, very appreciative of both of you agreeing and allowing me to ask you some hard questions. So and I'm also going to say this to anyone in the group or my panelists, if there are any questions that I ask that are very uncomfortable for you, just say pass. I'm okay with that. So on some ground rules in regards to the discussion today, so we're going to run probably about 30 to 45 minutes or so. I'm going to ask some questions of the panelists. I'm going to jump in sometimes and answer some other questions. We're going to have time at the end, because I'm sure there's going to be questions. And there's going to be an opportunity to network. What I'm going to ask from all of you now is to turn to your neighbor and introduce yourself. I'm going to give you some guidelines on that. And that may mean you have to move. And so you have to say what your name is, where you're from, and why you're at this session. I'm going to give you two minutes. Go. And I'm going to count down from three to one. And I'm going to start our presentation. Three, two, one. Title 42 is expiring. You all, yeah, it was a lot of fun. You all listen as well as kids. Maybe a little bit better. So I'm going to jump right in. And I'm not going to candy coat things. Again, there are going to be some things you may hear that may be a little disturbing. And one of the first things that I'm going to start with is I'm going to ask my panel, and I'm going to jump in, is what was one of your first encounters with racism and or discrimination. And I think that they overlap. And I'm going to be the first one to give an example. And I'm going to give the example from the mindset of babes, and not from my own. So in this interweaves with our profession, so the racism and discrimination, it interjects. So probably about six months ago, I was on my way to go meet a client for dinner. I was getting into my Uber and my son Eli comes up to me and he says, Daddy, one of the kids in the neighborhood came up to me and said something very alarming. And I said, Well, Eli, what did he say? And he said, Well, the kid said that I was black because I was burned in a toaster oven. I said, Okay, I took it with a grain of salt, which I try to do. And people ask me if I'm jaded. And I say I am every bit of jaded, but I'm smart enough to know that I give everybody the benefit of the doubt. And so I got into Uber and I said, Eli, go speak to mom about this. And Emory calls me and she says that not only did the little boy say this to my son, he said this same kind of language to some other girls that happened to also be African American, African American, that were in the group. So my job as a father now becomes I need to address this immediately. And I need to take care of it. I have a very good relationship with the father, I understood that a parent that I'm now going to be in a conflict with an immediate conflict with could have done two things. He could have said no, that my son wouldn't do this. Or two, he could have done the right thing and addressed it and taking care of the issue. I simply sent the father a text message, because I'm in the car. And I said, your son has said some culturally inappropriate things. Please talk to your son and please handle this situation. Dad did the right thing. His son and his wife were down at my house apologizing to Eli and my wife within five minutes. That was a situation that was very hard for me. I had to channel my energy and effort into that situation. And so it also permeated into my client dinner. Because now when I get out of the Uber, I'm having to deal with the situation with the father and him telling me why that they don't accept this and why it's he has no idea how it happened. And I simply said, I appreciate you handling it. And let's just get beyond this situation. I'm addressing it. And I expect that it never happens again. His son was not out for the next two or three weeks, and it was handled. But that's an example and an ongoing example of how I have to handle things in the nature of racism and or discrimination, and how it permeates with my job, my profession, and that is outside. And so that situation took a long time. And it took some emotional toll from me as well when I got home, and I processed everything. Yes, sir. Was the kid credibly stupid or malicious? I'm going to use different language. I think the kid had intent because he was outside of his comfort zone. And I think he used the language to try to get an even playing field. If that makes sense. Okay. So I'm going to throw the same question to my panelists. Hey, everyone. My name is Dan Qing, and I was born and raised in China. I came to this country in 2010. And I think some of the early experiences I have encountered was when I was shopping with my friends who were also from China, and when we run into some people just yelling at us, go back to your country if we were not speaking American accent English. And I think sometimes it's interesting that how you look at things in perspective. If I was speaking a British accent, nobody would ask me to go back to my country, right? And so why is any other accent not appreciated here, right? And so that ties to one of my original initiatives that I decided to go back to my original name in the year of 2019. So when I first came to this country in 2010, I was so into fitting in this cultural and fitting everything here, including renaming myself with the name of Kristen, because it sounds like a name that would fit in here. And it served me to some extent, but I never really identified myself with that identity. And so in 2019, I decided, I'm going to take on this challenge to teach everyone, regardless where they come from, and what language they speak, to learn how to pronounce my name. And of course, I wanted to make it easier for everyone. I recognize the technicality of the challenges between different languages in pronunciation. And so I think I find that in a lot of people coming from different countries like India as well, that they have very long and challenging names that for English speaking natives to pronounce. And so that doesn't really make an excuse for us just to abandon our heritage or together, just to make it easy. I felt like there should be a good balance in between that we can still be comfortable knowing where we came from, including this very challenging name, and also at the same time, be more practical and make other people's life easier. And so this has been some of my experiences that I got out of it. So I'm going to interject too. So the sad reality of that situation is Dan Chen is very well educated. You're a CFP, a C, excuse me, you have your CFA. Yeah, you have your master's. Yeah, correct. Yeah. And I'm also a registered life planner. So that's a lot of stuff for someone to look at her and all of a sudden make a judgment and knowing her and understanding, you know, everything that she has been through. I look at her and say, well, all those experiences that she's been through now make her better. And it was probably, I mean, she's very well educated. There's no doubt about that. And I look at her and I was like, man, okay, you're CFP, you've got all these credentials. How hard is that to get those credentials in spite of having to do all this other stuff and having to deal with all this other stuff. So that makes you very well rounded in spite of the other situations that you've gone through. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Thank you. Well, Dan Chen, you win the credential challenge here. John has his MBA, so don't let him fool you. My name is John Ng. Similar to Dan Chen, I wasn't born here. I was born in Korea, but I immigrated, my family immigrated when I was just two years old. So a little different experience than you, but you know, it's really interesting to hear your decision around the name. So I have a little bit of trivia since we do have a tighter knit group here. Can anybody guess or does anybody know a famous Asian American? Can anyone name a famous Asian American? Yes, sir. I don't know that person. You know, someone I don't. I met her at a conference in Boston. And we had been skyping once a week. It's got to be six years. Oh, wow. Wow. Awesome. Graduated from Brigham Young University. She's got a lot of Brigham kids here. Well, you've named someone not on my list. Anybody else? Can anyone else name a famous Asian American? Yeah, you just yell it out. It's fine. Christie Yamaguchi. Awesome. Thank you. Jackie Chan. Great. Thank you. You played right into this bill. I appreciate it. Well, it's funny. So there's this organization that's called the Asian American Foundation. It was formed a few years ago that came out of all of the hate crimes we're seeing during the pandemic. And this organization started a study that's called the attitudes towards Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. And it basically it's a study of over 5000 survey participants of all different ethnicities. And they're trying to get a gauge on how Asian Americans are perceived and feel in our society today. And so one of the questions was the question I just asked here is, you know, who name a famous Asian American, and 26% of survey respondents said they didn't know. The next highest result was Jackie Chan at 12%. And by the way, Jackie Chan is not Asian American. He lives in Asia predominantly. And then the next, and this is surprising to me, and then the next person that they identified was Bruce Lee, Bruce Lee. If you don't know, Bruce Lee passed away about 50 years ago. And this was surprising to me because now that you mentioned it, both of them have American names, right? They don't go by their ethnic names. And I think one of the challenges that the question is about an experience I've had feeling racism or discrimination. Sad to say, in retrospect, there's so many incidents, right? Like I could share a story tension and Chris, you probably could say, yep, that happened to me as well. But I remember this one moment, I guess, with Asian Americans, there's a challenge of being seen, right? We're always kind of facing this challenge and struggle of trying to be seen and heard. And I'll never forget this moment. Financial planning is a second career for me. So before financial planning, I was working in corporate banking. And I'll never forget, we went to this, you know, one of those like fancy kind of events, and you're just waiting in the parking lot waiting for your car to come at the valet stand. And I was just standing there like everybody else. And I happened to be standing next to a very senior executive at the bank. And you know, I wasn't really talking to him, I was just kind of standing there. And then there's another gentleman that came by, a few years younger than me, about 6'3", blonde hair, blue eye. And then they immediately started having a conversation. So I was just listening in and it just turned out the younger gentleman's car came out first. So he got in, you know, exchanged pleasantries and he got in his car and left. As he was leaving, that senior executive turns to me, and mind you, we had not exchanged any words. He turns to me and he goes, that kid's going to go far. He looks just like my nephew. And I was like, wow, number one, good to know. But number two, at that moment, I realized I'm not 6'3". I don't have blonde hair. I don't have blue eyes and I will never look like this person's nephew. And it really struck me that in order for me to reach that level of acceptance in this executive mind, I'll have to really, really stand out, right? I can't just be good, can't just be great. I have to be exceptional and I have to be exceptional every single day. And on the one hand, that's great motivation, right? But, you know, everyone, you know, Michael Jordan needed his high school coach to cut him in order to become great. Everyone needs that motivation. But on the flip side, and this is where I think the impact on career comes, is without me even knowing it, I had this like burden, this weight that I was carrying on my shoulder every single day, feeling like I had to be perfect. I can't make one mistake because God forbid I make a mistake and I don't look like that executive's nephew, right? Where I would get the grace that someone like me isn't allowed. So that's my experience. Well, I think that's a great point and I'm going to expand on that and I appreciate you bringing that part up. On one side, and I try to look at things, you know, with a glass half full, on one end, as you mentioned, you know, being slighted sometimes causes you to work harder. But there is an undue burden that goes along with that. And in my instance that I share with you, when I know that I am working harder and that is sometimes taken for granted. When I am applying or when I was applying before I had my own firm, applying for the same job or somebody else that looked like that gentleman that you're speaking about, I'm having to not cut any corners. I am having to, you know, have more certifications. I'm having to put in more hours. I'm having to do more and more and more and more. And that individual sometimes may not have to do anything but just show up. And that's a sad reality. I understand that. I know that. And now I'm always working hard regardless. Because I know at the end of the day, it's me and I'm looking out for my family. And I just have that mindset, sort of like Michael Jordan. We were talking about sports earlier. And no matter what I'm doing, I'm going to put 110% into it. And there is an element of a burden that comes, you know, with that. Sometimes you get burned out. But I just know at the end of the day, I have to be better than the next person. And I always have that mindset kind of going into things. So I really appreciate that. I'm also going to categorize things as we're kind of going through. Because there is a process, you know, when we're having this discussion. So we're talking about personal racism. We're going to move into what I would categorize as systematic racism as well. I'm also going to, you know, turn it into corporate racism. And then there's a definitive trauma that goes along with that. And I would call that racial trauma. And all of this information, again, you're going to get in the form of a PDF, you know, before we leave. But the emotional aspect, which I saved to last, is real. I live that every day. And I'm going to say that you all live that every day too. And so it is real and it's lasting. And that's something that not everybody has to deal with. So systematic racism. Can you describe a time when you have either experienced that, witnessed it, or felt it? I think the memory probably is pretty still refreshing. I think what happened during the COVID is really eye-opening for myself. Because even my family, they still live in China, was once a time asking myself, why are you still there? Just based on what's happening in the news and all these hatred messages sending out. So that was a scary time that I felt that systematically, as an Asian living in America, I have completed my immigration process already. And so I would count as an Asian American by definition and still live here. And so that was something I started to ask myself, okay, so is this country changing? Do I still feel comfortable here? Or do I still feel comfortable to choose the country and to identify this country as my second home? And so that was the time I witnessed and I remembered I was quite concerned about going to public places during certain times. And you were within your every emotional right to be fearful of going through those places. So yeah, that's a great example. Thanks. So just to set expectations around systematic racism, I think one of the most common examples or well-known examples of systematic racism is redlining, right? Is everyone familiar with the concept of that? I'm going to further define systematic racism. I'm going to go into another example. I'm going to further define it, but go ahead. So I don't know that I've ... With a lot of racism topics, it's sometimes hard to know if you're a victim to it or if you've been subjected to it, but a recent example where I was kind of taken aback and pretty surprised is there was a lawsuit that happened at either Harvard or Yale that basically showed that they had discriminated against Asian American acceptance rates. I see a few heads nodding, so I think people are familiar with the study. And that really surprised me because I remember I graduated high school in 1994 and I remember back then all my Asian friends were going to SAT prep academies. Their parents were just having them study really, really hard, kind of the stereotypical tiger mom. I kind of experienced all that, but interestingly enough, my mom's an artist, so she didn't care if I did homework or not. When I got into college, they were pretty surprised, but that's a different story. So I remember seeing a lot of my Asian American friends studying really, really hard and some of them got near perfect scores on the SAT back when a perfect score ended up in the newspaper. And I was shocked when we ended up at the same university and I could not figure out how AI got in, but what I couldn't really figure out is how they didn't get in to their top three choices. Fast forward almost 30 years later to see this study, the first thought I had was, I can't imagine how they feel. All the sacrifices you made, all the sacrifices your parents made. Most of my friends are immigrants, so the parents are working two jobs trying to put them into these SAT prep schools, which are very expensive. And then to maybe have had that feeling your whole life, like something wasn't right. I probably should have got in. I can't really figure out why. And then to see this in the newspaper, kind of proving what you've been feeling for decades. And I specifically thought of one friend who the whole time we were at school, he just didn't seem happy because he felt like that's not where he should have been. He should have been somewhere else. And I didn't connect with him, but I wished he would have seen that and felt some retribution knowing that, yeah, he was wronged and that he was good enough to get into that school. And that's unfortunate, truly is unfortunate. I am going to expand on systematic racism and I'm going to try to explain it as simplistic as possible. It's a system that wasn't invented yesterday. It's something that's carried over for probably well over 100, 200 years. And I'm going to define it with an example that I experienced and I referenced my days kind of as a teacher. My degree in college was elementary education. I was interning at a school in Gainesville, Florida called PK Young. And I was in a classroom with a teacher that was socially and culturally inept. That's the politest way that I could say it. And one day she took me aside and she said that black students don't learn at the same rate as white students. That's a definitive systematic thing. And I can stamp it and I can say that's exactly where it comes from. And so she looks at me and she kind of, now I'm in her classroom and she kind of places me outside of this dynamic of being a black person. But in the back of her mind, she does kind of judge me. And so I understood that. And part of me being in my master's year in elementary education, I couldn't get anything lower than a B or I'd be on probation. And so from that moment, I knew without anything else going on that I was going to get a C or lower in my class. And so what I did is I went through the right steps and getting angry and having an outburst at that time was not the right thing. I needed to use my mind to correct the situation. So I went to her boss, which was my interning professor, and my interning professor passed it off and said, well, she's not like that. And she would never say anything like that. And I said to her, I'm telling you this and this is what happened. And so at the end of the semester, I already knew what I was going to get in the mail. I got a C. And I was a straight A student in college and I got the C. I had a conversation with my interning professor and I said, we have a problem. And what I didn't disclose to you is that the University of Florida, they promoted me into their program because I was a black male. They wanted to use me as the face for their program saying that there are black males. And now I'm this black male that you're promoting and all of a sudden I'm facing discrimination. It doesn't work. So I've had a very frank conversation with my professor and I said, Hey, we have an issue. I got a C. That's not what I earned. And I don't want anything that I didn't earn. I want what I deserved. And so I said, you've given me a C. I'm going to go on probation and we need to talk about this. Well, I'm not going to change your grade. Well, we're going to have a bigger issue here. So I'm going to write a letter to the dean of the college who happened to be black and I'm going to write a letter to the president of the university and we're going to go from there. And so it was sad that I had to go through that process and I got a certified letter the next day stating that my grade was changed to a B. So that's an example, a very definitive example of systematic racism that's happened. So and I like to be very specific and measurable about things that happen so you can have a very clear picture in your mind. I'm going to fast forward to the aspect of the profession and the corporate to highlight an example. You guys want to take one? I think from my experience, most of my working experience has been here because I came here for graduate school and after that I did a few internships around the country and then I went to a firm, worked for a few years and then moved to another firm. And so my experience has been that I would summarize is that somewhat fortunate because there was not really intentional malicious racism against me as far as my experience has been. But I have always felt that I was not really seen as a normal person. I always felt this outsider feeling and I think mostly it's due to the ignorance of cultural differences and also the ignorance of the intentionality. Sometimes it may go a little bit better with everyone. So I wouldn't say a lot of firms out there are intentional about being disrespectful. I think most of the firms probably fall into the category of being ignorant. They just don't know what it is. And so I have a lot of respect to extend to all of you who are making your time to attend this session today because it shows that you are willing to learn more. That's something that you may have not been aware of. So really appreciate that. So I'm going to add to your comment. So the ignorance factor that she had spoke of, there's a term for that. It's called willful blindness. So if in an organization you are not taking the proper steps to open your eyes, then you are still guilty. You are absolutely guilty. And I'll give you an example of that a little bit later, how willful blindness applies. So but thank you for bringing that up. Thank you. So in this study from the Asian American Foundation, they asked what percent of Americans who say they're at least somewhat comfortable in having an Asian American as president or vice president of the country, a supervisor, a member of the family, a neighbor, a coworker, a doctor or nurse or a friend. So when they asked this question, 84% of respondents said they would feel comfortable having an Asian American as a friend. So it's really positive. What they were not as positive on was having an Asian American as a boss or supervisor or president of the United States. And I think in my career, I started working in 1998 and some of the things I observed and there's a famous book about it called The Bamboo Ceiling is this challenge to get to senior leadership. And I think if you look at the data, the data is very apparent that there isn't as much representation of people of color or women in the Fortune 500 like C-suite level. And I looked at that study and I thought it was interesting because on the one hand, I do feel as Asian Americans, we're given certain opportunities, right? Which goes back to some of the stereotypical ideas of Asians are hardworking and they're studious and they're smart and all that kind of stuff. But on the other hand, we're automatically kind of like your great example. There's this willful bias of a ceiling that we're always trying to like penetrate through. And when I saw that study, it really highlighted that, yeah, if someone's smart and they're hardworking, right, and they're all those positive things, I would want to be friends with them too. But when you flip it around to say, but I wouldn't necessarily want someone who I think is smart and hardworking to be my boss, that's a completely different story, right? So when you think about like corporate racism, I think that's still a challenge that a lot of us face. And to Dan Sheen's point, it comes from education, right? I think having forums and sessions like this where we, through discussion and education and kind of mutual education, honestly, right, where we're all learning from each other, that's the path forward to breaking these types of stereotypes and creating the opportunities where, yeah, I could be seen as a friend and potentially a leader. I don't have to be your boss or leader, but I'd like to know that the opportunity is available for me if that's what I choose. So. Thank you. I'm going to give a couple of examples. When we go into the next session about racial trauma, I'm going to try to limit all of our dialogue to two minutes because I want to make sure that we give everyone else. And we ran late because of the last session. So we're probably going to run a few minutes late as you had indicated. So this one is also very measurable, and this is going to get right into the heart of willful blindness. So probably about 10 years ago, maybe 11 years ago, I worked for an organization in Orlando that they were bought out by another organization. I was a private banker. And part of the transition was I was required to drive two hours every week to Sarasota. So I live in Orlando and Sarasota is approximately two hours from me. And that was at the time where Zoom was just starting to come into vogue and you had video capabilities and I would drive to this meeting. I wasn't afforded a rental car and I wasn't afforded the ability to do Zoom meetings. But I would go to this meeting and I would see other people either have a rental car or I would see other people on video. And I think I went like three or four weeks. I had an initial conversation with my boss about at least getting me a rental car. And he said, no, you have to drive your personal vehicle. I'm driving down to Sarasota, I called my boss and I said, I just want to let you know that this whole situation smells, feels like complete discrimination. And I said to him, he had a very unique name, his name was Ruppert, and I said, Ruppert, I know you. I know you're not intentional about doing this and I know you're taking orders from somebody else. I'm telling you the reality of the situation is you are completely, unequivocally discriminating against me, not giving me a rental car and not allowing me to be on video. When it's clear that my white counterparts are being given rental cars and they're allowed to stay home and be on video. And he said, no, that's the way it is. And again, I'm using my mind because I don't want to get upset in this situation. I said, we need to talk to your boss. We're done. And I get his boss involved and then they lay out the red carpet and it becomes a bigger issue because now the company is looking at a potential lawsuit. I'm not even thinking that. I'm just trying to get a rental car just to go to Sarasota every week. That's all that I'm thinking about. And so they roll out the red carpet. We have a meeting with him, his boss, and then somebody that's just below the president of the company. We didn't need to go that far. And all I wanted was equal treatment. And so they ended up suiting me with a mentor. It was a black mentor that was a high executive. I didn't need that either. I just needed equal treatment. But that's a very definitive example of willful blindness within an organization. Again, my boss had no idea what he was doing. He was just taking orders, but didn't think outside of the situation. I'm gonna roll quickly into racial trauma because this is an important aspect and it is very lasting. So I'm gonna define racial trauma. And you're gonna get some links to this. So racial trauma, all the stuff that I've already described and what Dantian has described and what John's described, there's an emotional element that comes with everything that's transpired. And you go through a situation and you're done with that situation. You're not done with the emotional component. It lasts. It lasts until the next situation, to the next situation, and the next situation. So there is an emotional, defined emotional component with each one of these. I said at the beginning that I'm jaded, but I'm smart enough to know to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. So. I think my experience is probably a little bit different. It may not fall into exactly the racial topic because as a woman, it kind of adds this extra layer of challenge and the reality, and the elephant is in the room and I'm not shy to address it, that my experience may be very different from John as Asian American experience because of the difference of our gender. And so there might be some good situations for me, but also it's a challenging situation. And so from my experience here, I wouldn't say I'm not happy here because most of the times people are very nice to me. But now when I think about it in retrospect, had I be a male, would I still feel the same way? I might felt a lot more challenge like not being seen, not being very welcomed or smiled at. But as a youthful-looking Asian woman that adds to the mix, sometimes people tend to smile at me. And I didn't know why I get that smile. I took it at the moment because it made my life experience easier. But now when I look back, trying to thought out things, sometimes it does serve in my advantage, but it does bring challenge to me professionally. So I was networking, trying to bring new clients, and then we were talking about social security. The next thing you know is, yes, let's get together, get some coffee, and then we'll talk more. And so I was so happy. And so I set the appointment, and then the next thing you know, it is an unwanted date. Because the social security topic stopped flowing, and everything now starts to ask me about what I do after work, all these things. And there are also a lot of age disparity because I was in Miami, so most of my target potential clients are retirees. And so that just fitting perfectly in that scene that I didn't know until I find out later. And so that is something, it's quite challenging as a woman. And then the other thing I get a lot is, not just from my clients, but also our prospective clients, but also from industry fellow professionals, that they look at me, sometimes they wanted to make a compliment, but sometimes you wonder that compliment may not be compliment for professional reasons. And so they might ask, oh, you look like you just got out of high school, or you look like you just got out of college, right? And then I would tell them, well, I have 10 years of experience already, and I have a graduate degree. And so you might want it to say thank you, but also it does inevitably create that challenge for me to try to keep to prove myself, prove my credibility professionally. And I think that is what that trauma that I still carry when I self-reflect sometimes. Because sometimes I will feel so stressed out and so concerned about if I did enough or not. And matter of fact, the reason I did my CFA certification, I did my, a lot of other designations, partially is because I wanted to learn, I wanted to be more competent, I wanted to continue to provide better services. But at the same time, it was fulfilling that trauma I had that I wanted to make sure I'm enough professionally. And I think that is not only being a minority facing clients who don't look like me, but also the reality that as a woman, that it is inevitable. And sometimes I will have woman clients preferring to talk to a male advisor. There's no disrespect there from me. I didn't get offended. Simply because how they grew up, they carried that trauma. How they grew up is that man is with the money, man manages the money. And so when she became a widower, even though we have a team that is me and another male advisor, we both serve her, but always she prefers him. And so there are a lot of things that in the industry that we face. We are not in the position to request anyone else to change how they feel, what they do. I think the conversation here today is more meant to have a more understanding of why people will categorize stereotype and profile people they see. And it's a lot of times it has to do with their own experience instead of us. And that brings me to another solution that I think potentially may work that I have also been trying to practice myself is it's a two-way straight situation. When we are hoping and asking, raising our voice to ask for more understanding, more tolerance from people how we want them to treat us, at the same time I think we also order to ourselves to understand sometimes we may create our own thoughts, prejudices that we were being discriminated, right? And so when there are in fact discriminative actions, remarks that some of you have experienced, there's no doubt about it, it's fact. Often there are situations that it may just a thought in our mind we created. And one very remarkable story that I have that I experienced not because me being feeling that way, it's because I made the other person feeling that way. And then what I think it is, it's because there was a African-American colleague at a firm I worked with. And one day after work, it was just her and me in the office and when I was about to leave my office, I was craving for some fried chicken that day for no reason. And remember, I came from China and I was born and raised in China. So fried chicken simply means fried chicken to me. There's no any other meanings attached to it. And so it was a perfect storm because it was just only her left in the office. And so I just did what I usually do. Oh, hey, so and so, I've been craving for some fried chicken. Do you know any recommended places nearby? And of course I offended her, but I didn't even know it. And so the next day when I found out what I did without knowing it, I apologized ferociously. I was like, I'm so sorry, I had no idea what that means. And that was definitely not my intention at all. And I really apologize for that. And I don't think that apology was accepted. And so this story made me to think, sometimes while I am hurt in situations like that, it may be just a thought that I create in my mind that people are trying to discriminate me instead of what they really are trying to do. And so I guess that's what I was trying to share. It's a two-way street situation in some situations. And if we are also asking people to be respectful at the same time, we might want to do something to be respectful to others as well, to understand other people's life expenses and limitations and understand, you know, is it really their intention to discriminate us or make us feel bad? Or is it some miscommunication along the line? And I think with open communication and more understanding on our end as the minority, as the woman on the receiving end, it would help us to unwrap that trauma that we may have developed at a certain point. And that would collectively make it better. And I think that's what I think is the essence of all these discussions we have. It's not meant to be, it's your responsibility. You need to be more sensitive about what to say, what not to say. It's not enough. It has to be the other party to come to admit and recognize that sometimes, you know, we might have creative thoughts that may not be even true. And the emotions will arouse based on what we think. And then we may act on it, then everything became reality. So just wanted to throw that out. And that was kind of my experience that I wanted to share. Thank you. I think that was perfect. I think that was a perfect wrap. We're at 1047, and I wanna make sure that I give you an opportunity to close out. And so, and then I'm gonna wrap up. I think I shared kind of the trauma that comes from these expectations at work earlier. So I'm gonna pass it back to you actually, Chris, to bring us home. That's a great point, by the way, that you mentioned about grace. Yeah, I couldn't have wrapped it up perfectly myself. So thank you very much. Wow, I'm just thinking about everything that you said and how much meaning there was into that. I'm gonna bring this kind of back home. The question that I had asked, what's the first thing that I see when I look into a room? This is not a rhetorical question. Anybody can answer. Your uniqueness. Excuse me? Your uniqueness. Define my uniqueness. Probably maybe one of few African Americans in the room. That's exactly right. When I walk into any kind of room, I look to see if there's anybody that looks like me. 100%, that is the first thing that I look for when I go into a room. If there's nobody that looks like me, then I'm on guard, 100%. I'm probably not as open. I'm probably not as charismatic. But if I see someone that looks like me, and there's quite a few people in here that look like me, so I'm more at ease. But I don't think that is uncommon for other people, especially friends and family members that I've spoken to. And again, that's from me, and I'm gonna use her kind of terminology. She was ignorant of that comment. When I go into a room, I'm no longer ignorant. Like I said, I'm jaded, but I'm smart enough to know that I have to mix and mingle, and I have to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. It is a process that I go through every time I go into a room. Because I'm thinking, okay, is somebody gonna say something to me on purpose, or is somebody gonna say something out of ignorance? If somebody says something out of ignorance, that's a lot easier for me to take than if somebody says it on purpose. And I carry that with me a lot. I'm gonna give you some takeaways. There's going to be a PDF on the screen, and there's a QR code. I got fancy. So. So the advice, I'm gonna give you some actionable things to take with you. So these four are links. Be an agent of change through empathy and understanding. I hope this presentation, extraneous to what I said, but to these two great individuals, it gives you some empathy and understanding of what your counterparts go through every day. Practice awareness. And this is where that willful blindness aspect came into play. Ask questions. Be uncomfortable with the uncomfortable and avoid willful blindness. Someone asked me, I'm uncomfortable asking you about racism and discrimination. Ask me anyways. Put the burden on me and allow me to tell you that I'm not comfortable talking about it. If you don't ask the question, then nothing happens. Practice humility. There is a problem, and seek ways to understand and understand entitlement. I have a big issue with entitlement, a very big issue. During the George Floyd time, I had one buddy who was constantly, he's a white friend of mine, who was constantly in my ear asking me questions all the time. I need to do a better job of understanding this. I need to do this, I need to do that. He took it upon himself to go out and start reading literature, going online, and asking a lot of questions. Now he's a huge advocate. I was in a text message chain with a group of buddies, and one of the guys said something that was out of turn against an Asian American sect. My buddy came in, because I was just puzzled, I thought they were typos, and my buddy comes in and says, no, we're gonna have to eliminate you from this text message chain if you continue that dialogue. And I was like, whoa. He read way between the lines more than I did. And he was right on. Empathy. Acknowledge discrimination, stand up for what is right, seek out information, and learn how challenges of race makes others feel. I'm gonna give you another example of somebody that stood up for me. I never expect anyone to stand up for me. I was in college, and my sons know this example very well. I had a group of friends. It was about a group of 20 friends. I was probably the only minority within this group of friends. At the time, I didn't drink alcohol. We were going to a party late at night, and we were all walking to this party. There was a person in that party that I had known for 11 years at that point, and I'm gonna use some brash language. He was drinking, and truth serum came out, and he called me a nigger. You know what happened at that point. I unleashed on him. There was physical violence. This group of people had a decision to make in that moment. The decision was to allow this physical confrontation to go on and allow these individuals to continue to work in our dynamic. What they did changed the trajectory of what I did with those friends. They pulled us apart, first and foremost. They didn't allow us to fight. I hit this gentleman in the face very quickly, and they pulled us apart, and they basically excommunicated this other person from our friends. That spoke volumes to me, because that said that they had my best interests at heart. That person has never spoken to any one of those friends ever again. Those kids didn't know what they were doing at the time. They were just doing what was right, but that spoke volumes to me, and I've said it to my friend, the person that I've known longest of this group. You don't know how much that did for me. You have my back. Be a mentor. Give a hand up, not a hand out. I don't want any money from anybody. I want you to be a mentor. I want you to help guide me. If I have problems, I've always had a mentor in my career, and my mentor has always been a black mentor, because he understands the struggles of what I go through. He's pulled me through the ranks. Now I can pull other people through the ranks. That's what I'm giving an example of. Here's some resources. I'm not gonna promote myself, but there's a podcast that I did. There's also a blog that I did that's very pertinent, and it talks about some real life examples. Systematic, personal, corporate, racial trauma, all of the above. Racial trauma, there's a link to racial trauma. You can read about it. There's also a link to systematic racism. This one is near and dear to my heart. That example that I used with Eli, he was able to identify it. I made my two boys sit through this CNN town hall session with Sesame Street. They hated it. They said, why are we sitting through this? It was 45 minutes long, but the impact was Eli was able to come to me and identify what was going on. So whatever I did as a parent worked in that moment. Not everything works, but that one stuck. So these are very, very powerful resources. So we've run out of time. It is 10.56. I don't wanna make you late. I'm gonna hang around. If you see me around, please come up and talk to me. I'm not shy or bashful about any of this information. And thank you all for coming and listening and being a part of the presentation. It inspires me. Thank you.

Challenges of Race and Our Profession

Christopher Dale

racism

discrimination

financial industry

empathy

systematic racism

career opportunities

racial trauma